An Interview with Professor Datuk Dr Mohd Tajudin Md Ninggal, Vice President (Academic & Research), OUM
By Dr David Lim
Distilling Tajudin
Dr David Lim [DL]: If brevity is wit, how would you describe the person who is the distillation of the flesh-and-blood individual who goes by the name of Mohd Tajudin Md Ninggal, the prominent Professor of Counselling Psychology and licensed professional counsellor who promotes integrative and positive psychology approaches to enhance wellbeing, and the Vice President (Academic & Research) of Open University Malaysia (OUM) whose key responsibility is to navigate the university towards its academic true-north?
Professor Datuk Dr Mohd Tajudin Md Ninggal [TN]: Narratives of who we are invariably betray how we wish to be seen by ourselves and others; they represent the subjective truth of our ideal ego rather than the distillation of an unchanging essence. From this standpoint, I am but a fallible being shaped by forces known and unknown who seeks to do the right thing by his fellow sojourners in life and the One from whom all of us originate.
The Counsel of Time
DL: If time is “the wisest counsellor of all”, as Pericles the Athenian statesman put it, what main counsel would it have offered you?
TN: If time is the wisest counsellor, then, it has counselled me, as it did Rumi, that one ought to seek the path that demands one’s whole being. For me, that path is education.
OUM was founded in 2000 with a very specific mission. That mission, informed by social justice, was unheard of in Malaysia at the time: it was and still is to democratise higher education for all Malaysians.
The Non-Negotiable Constant
DL: At its inception in the late 1990s, OUM
was informally self-designated a “teaching
university” in an era when it was not only
conceivable but also tenable that universities
could opt to deprioritize research. Since then
the whole academic landscape has evolved
radically on the national and global fronts, and
it continues to evolve and exert pressure on
institutions of higher learning to evolve along
or risk being left behind. Private entities in
the analytics business have since taken the
lead in determining the various performance
criteria by which universities are to be
measured, rated, and ranked. Governments
and their regulating bodies have largely
come to subscribe to the analytics-driven
paradigm, or have at least found themselves
unable to opt out of it. The same applies to
other stakeholders, including the boards
of governors of the respective universities,
employers, and fee-paying learners.
Given the scenario just painted, how do
you think universities today, especially open
universities operating as private enterprises,
can, on the one hand, stay at least one
competitive step ahead of the evolving
analytics-driven world of measurement that
may at any time throw a curveball at them?
What if it were to be made a rule tomorrow,
for instance, that publications indexed by
Clarivate’s Web of Science (WOS) should
be more assigned higher scores for valuing
purposes as compared to non-WOS-indexed
publications – which is already happening
in some universities? How do universities,
particularly those in the developing world,
prepare for such potential changes and, at the
same time, remain faithful to the mission that
some would say all universities ought to treat
as their non-negotiable constant: to serve as
truth-seeking institutions?
TN: Although the general understanding of
“teaching universities” is that they prioritise teaching
over research as their primary mission, that
understanding in fact belies the actual variability
and complexity of the term. In the US, for instance,
the term is often used to describe small liberal arts
colleges and community colleges that offer a narrow
range of undergraduate education. By design,
the wealthier colleges tend to organise exclusive
smaller-sized classes and provide a more enriched
personalised experience to their learners, while
the less endowed ones offer frill-free education.
The term has also been used to describe larger
comprehensive universities that fall outside the
Carnegie R1 (Very High Research Activity) and R2
(High Research Activity) university lists.
Aside from the fact that there are different kinds
of “teaching universities”, what is important to note,
especially for the layperson, is that, universities of
all types that describe themselves or are described
as teaching-orientated are not necessarily devoid
of research activities. Teaching universities might
not have the mass of academic staff to conduct
the kind of research that requires costly equipment
and multi-million-dollar grants, as is often the
case in high-profile research in, say, medicine
and the sciences. But not having outsized grants,
special equipment, and large teams of academics
conducting laboratory-based experiments as part
of their research does not mean that research is
therefore absent.
At issue here, I believe, is the common
misconception, even among some university
stakeholders, that research is a fanfare reducible
to all the visible signifiers I have just described,
entirely overlooking its essence, which is about
scholarship and the production of new knowledge
that addresses knowledge gaps others have yet
to address or that are only now appearing on the
horizon as a result of the changing landscape
of knowledge. Research as scholarship and the
accretive production of new knowledge take place
not only in the hard sciences but across disciplines
– in Psychology, Islamic Studies, English, History,
Philosophy, Management Studies, to name but a
few. And they do not always require monumental
funding or lab-based experiments done by groups of
scientists donning white coats.
The increasing pushback against measurement by external metrics is a reminder that universities are not without agency, and that they could volitionally opt out if their strength of conviction tells them to.
With that clarified, it is now opportune to bring
OUM into the discussion. OUM was founded in 2000
with a very specific mission. That mission, informed
by social justice, was unheard of in Malaysia at
the time: it was and still is to democratise higher
education for all Malaysians. How? By removing
traditional, if not elitist, access barriers and
creating opportunities for under-served Malaysian
working adults of all backgrounds to acquire higher
education. Not only was OUM’s mission radical and
new, so too were the means by which OUM sought
to achieve the mission: not by conventional means
within the four walls of a classroom, but via distance
education by leveraging on advances in technology
and andragogy, the theory and practice of adult
education.
What OUM pioneered at the turn of the century
with the advent of the internet was so novel that it
took concerted effort to convince Malaysians that
this was indeed a game-changing viable concept.
Consistently, over the years, with the government’s
support, OUM embarked on roadshows and
employed all media to explain to the public how
the new mode of teaching and learning worked,
and what benefits were waiting to be reaped. At a
time when few understood non-traditional methods
of doing higher education, OUM, as part of its
operations, was already training scores of tutors
and subject-matter experts from across Malaysia
– thousands of whom were academics from
conventional local institutions of higher learning – on
the theory and practice of what has come to be
known as “open, distance, and digital education”
or ODDE. Before anyone else in the country, OUM
had set up and cyclically enhanced what has now
evolved into a robust online learning platform that
serves as the backbone of its services and that
others seek to replicate. From the early days, before
research was a trending subject, OUM was already
engaged in research on ODDE and in the disciplines
related to the programmes it offered, quickly
becoming a successful model of an ODDE institution
that others from around the globe sought to learn
from. Through all this, most importantly, OUM
stayed on-course to enable Malaysians to realise
their dream of acquiring quality higher education on
a part-time basis, without having to forgo their jobs
or compromise on their life responsibilities. To date,
close to one hundred thousand Malaysians, inclusive
of almost fifty thousand teachers in Malaysian
schools, have been trained and graduated by OUM.
This, by any standard, is no mean feat.
In short, in response to your question, if OUM is
a “teaching university”, then it is one that has done
much more than to “teach” in the traditional sense of
the word. In an expansive sense, OUM has helped
to educate a nation in an act of nation-building that it
was set up to partake in.
Having said that, it is important to acknowledge
that the world has changed just as radically since
OUM was founded in 2000, both nationally and
globally. The plain fact is that OUM can no longer
rely on its first mover advantage to stay ahead of the
game. Not only is there keen competition from other
universities to contend with, there is also the fact
that, by the government’s classification, OUM has
graduated from the category of emerging university
to mature university, thus raising the bar for us to
deliver on all fronts. Like all mature universities aged
fifteen years and above, OUM is expected to furnish
continuous evidence of higher levels of financial
sustainability, teaching-staff capability, research
capacity, student satisfaction, and other quality
criteria set by the government.
Also to be contended with are the metrics used
by analytics companies to rank and rate universities
– metrics that, as you pointed out, have become
increasingly influential with many stakeholders in
higher education over the past two decades. For
all universities, including OUM, these metrics can
be useful as tools to reflect on the multiple ways
in which performance may be measured. Even
metrics like faculty/student ratio, international
student ratio, and international faculty ratio – which
are inapplicable to open universities that cater to
the masses and are guided by their nation-building
mission – are beneficial to consider, for they help
us to better appreciate the performance qualities
prized by others and to reflect on where we stand in
relation to the others.
At the same time, it is crucial to bear in mind
that these metrics should not distract us from
our institutional mission. Even the law schools of
Yale, Harvard, and the University of California have
recently withdrawn from a popular US ranking
exercise due to the methodologies used that are
deemed to be misaligned with their institutional
values and the core commitments of the profession.
Other shortcomings of the various ranking exercises
that have been rightly highlighted by detractors
include the observation that they are invariably tilted
in favour of research-intensive universities based in
the developed nations and that they unfairly apply
the same standards to all universities irrespective of
their founding mission.
The increasing pushback against measurement
by external metrics is a reminder that universities are
not without agency, and that they could volitionally
opt out if their strength of conviction tells them to.
This is not to whitewash the fact that the world
is structured by asymmetrical power relations,
that universities in the developing world may be
constrained in ways that elite universities in the
Global North are not. It is rather in recognition
of the asymmetry of things that universities in
the developing world have all the more reason
to find their mettle. What are their values and
commitments? What do they seek to achieve? And
what will they not compromise on? It is essential that
they clarify their values and firmly orientate towards
their institutional true-north. Better still if they were
able to operate with an eye to the future, remain
nimble in adapting to change, and adroitly balance
teaching and research within the “Goldilocks Zone”
that they would need to set for themselves within the
bounds of their resources and the expectations of
the governing bodies to which they are answerable.
Academics in open universities such as OUM are unique for their 360-degree expertise in delivering higher education in ODDE mode.
The Evolution and Reinvention of Universities
DL: In the early days, open universities were
a category of universities unto themselves –
one that was supposed to be different from
that in which conventional brick-and-mortar
universities are placed. That distinction
appears to be fast dissolving in the post-Covid era.
Open and conventional universities
are increasingly converging in key areas: in
the use of digital technologies to facilitate
teaching and learning; in the teaching-learning
mode that may gradate from blended to fully
online; in the migration of in-person exams to
online exams; in the recruitment targeting of
the same pool of learners; and so on. External
circumstances have been the impetus behind
this ongoing convergence which has given
rise to an existential crisis of sorts for open
universities in general. This was in fact already
anticipated by Alan Tait who in his essay titled
“Open Universities: The Next Phase” cautioned
that “there is no guaranteed place for Open
Universities in the landscape of higher
education: it will have to be earned once
again” and again, as the global landscape of
higher education continues to evolve.
What are your views on this unfolding?
What options are available for open
universities to exercise and reinvent itself?
TN: The scenario you have just sketched is real.
The key enabler here is technology and we already
know that the change that technology brings
happens gradually, then suddenly. So, it behoves
us all – in higher education as in all other sectors
where technology is a driving force – to continually
engage in environment scanning, to be attuned to
the kinds of technological innovations that are taking
place. The idea I’m advocating here is not to jump
onto the bandwagon of every emerging technology
as the fashionable course of action to take. What I
have in mind, rather, is the cultivation and pursuit of
an intellectual curiosity in emerging technologies,
especially those that have been earmarked as
potentially disruptive.
Ark Invest at https://ark-invest.com/bigideas-
2023/, for instance, has identified five
innovation platforms to watch: artificial intelligence,
public blockchains, energy storage, robotics, and
multiomic sequencing (which relates to the gathering
and sequencing of digital biological data). Some of
the technologies emerging from these converging
platforms include smart contracts, next gen cloud,
cryptocurrencies, and adaptive robotics. Even if
we are not entirely sure about the details of these
advances and the precise ways in which they
will shape the future, we can be sure that some
of these will gradually, then suddenly, impact our
lives, including the way we conceive and deliver
higher education. The challenge for all universities,
conventional and open, is to translate technology
as it ripens into practical, sensible, reliable, cost-effective,
user-friendly solutions to make teaching
and learning meaningful, all within the scope of the
institutional mission. This is actually much more
arduous than it might appear, for what is required is
not only a firm understanding of the technological
potentiality but also, arguably more importantly,
a grounded understanding of the philosophy and
practice of education, all of which is built, essentially,
on our conception of what it means to be human,
hence the vital importance of the human and social
sciences as disciplines. And this is where some
open universities may have an advantage over the
conventional universities where adult learners are
concerned.
While universities of all types might be
converging in the key areas you mentioned earlier,
universities that specialise in serving working adult
learners may have an edge by virtue of the fact that
they would be able to draw on two key resources:
first, the wealth of practical experience they have
accumulated over the years in working with adult
learners; and, second, evidence-based insights
from research on adult education in which they have
invested so as to better serve adult learners. In the
end, though, collaborating, rather than competing,
with other parties from our position of strength will,
I think, best prepare us for the brave new world that
we are on the cusp of entering.
Dis/Parity of Esteem
DL: In Issue 18 of inspired, Prof Junhong
Xiao observed the long-standing but under-interrogated
craving of open universities for “parity of esteem” from conventional
universities, warning that the former should
not be “overoptimistic” about obtaining
it from the latter. He argued that parity of
esteem was not entirely forthcoming from the
latter – not because there is a question mark
over the distance learning mode in which
programmes are run, but rather because,
fairly or not, there is a question mark over the
quality of the “distance learning programmes
run by distance education institutions.” This,
also, indirectly places a question mark over
the quality of the academics behind the
programmes. To compound the problem,
some open universities appear to also crave
parity of esteem for their academic staff who
are, again, fairly or not, being measured with
the yardstick originating from conventional
universities which often prioritise research
over other academic-related activities
including teaching.
This double craving that births an
existential crisis, it seems to me, is entirely the
making of the open universities experiencing
said crisis, bearing in mind that not all open
universities necessarily face the same. It is
their making because they failed to mount
a spirited defence of the merits of their
programmes against what Prof Xiao calls the
“absurd, snobbish and hypocritical” attitudes
of those who would question the quality of
the programmes on account of them being
offered by open universities. It is their making,
also, because they did not adequately nurture
a research culture in their own institutions
from the outset. And it is their making because
they failed to recognise, value, and reward
their own academic staff for what their
counterparts in conventional universities
lack: the cumulative practical experience and
expertise of their own academics in delivering
and managing open, distance, and digital
higher education, preferring or compelled
instead to esteem the research achievements
of the well-resourced conventional
universities that are threatening to supplant
open universities given the ongoing digital
convergence of things.
What are your views on this ironic
disparity of esteem that is weighted against
open universities? How does one break the
deadlock?
one of the university’s proudest achievements is its alumni community, which is almost one hundred thousand strong
TN: Like it or not, elitism is deeply ingrained in the
norms and values of many societies. It reinforces
the status and self-worth of those who subjectively
locate themselves on the higher levels of the social
hierarchy, and it serves as a buffer against the fear of
change in an increasingly uncertain world. OUM was
founded precisely to dismantle the kind of elitism
that prevents ordinary Malaysians from acquiring
and reaping the benefits of higher education, bearing
in mind that higher education is many things to many
people: an opportunity to prove to oneself that one is
no less capable than the next person, an investment
in the promise of upward social mobility, a structured
way of scratching an intellectual itch, a means of
reinventing oneself or carving a second career, a
way of honouring one’s parents – the reasons are
as many as there are learners interested in earning a
degree.
Eased accessibility to higher education made
possible by open universities’ admission policy and
mode of delivery has attracted its fair share of cynics
and sceptics, including those who still believe that
higher education ought to be reserved for a minority
deemed to possess superior abilities and talents.
Be that as it may, open universities have proven the
cynics and sceptics wrong, especially now, post-Covid,
that ODDE has become as mainstream as
classroom-bound education. Open universities have
been vindicated, as have their graduates who have
made their mark in the world, irrespective of whether
they are esteemed by a minority of elitists, including
those from the conventional universities. If there are
academics in open universities that still hanker for
parity of esteem from their peers in the conventional
universities or elsewhere, then there may be cause
for them to soul-search to ascertain if the root
causes of their desire are not their own lack of self-regard,
under-appreciation of the distinctiveness of
their institutional mission, and incomplete grasp of
what it means to teach and learn.
Lastly, I agree that we should not lose sight
of the fact that the kind of work performed by
academics in open universities such as OUM is
highly specialised and cannot be compared to
the teaching-research-administrative work of their
peers in the conventional universities. Academics
in open universities such as OUM are unique for
their 360-degree expertise in delivering higher
education in ODDE mode. Trained to practise on
a solid theoretical foundation of ODDE, they are
actively involved in all aspects of ODDE delivery from
curriculum conception, material production, and
instructional design, through teaching, assessment,
management, research, and marketing, to providing
pastoral care to learners facing unique challenges
when studying in the ODDE mode. They are ODDE
natives and it was this very fact that enabled OUM
to coast through the Covid era while many other
institutions struggled to deliver their programmes
online without necessarily understanding the whys
and wherefores of ODDE. For any person and
institution to undervalue this very specialised skillset
of ODDE academics and to compound that by
expecting them to be more like their peers in the
conventional universities, instead of expecting their
peers to be more like them, would be to do them a
great disservice.
From Silver to Gold
DL: OUM will be celebrating the silver jubilee of its founding in a little over two years from now. Looking back at the close to twenty-five-year history of the institution founded with the mission to democratise higher education, what would you say are its proudest achievements? How has OUM evolved over the years, and what might it look like by the time it celebrates its golden jubilee?
TN: A quarter of a century would yield more
than a few memorable moments. OUM is in the
midst of documenting the key moments of its
journey for public exhibition in time for its twenty-fifth
anniversary in 2025. I would venture to say
now, though, that one of the university’s proudest
achievements is its alumni community, which is
almost one hundred thousand strong and serves
as a testament to the institution’s commitment to
providing a quality education and fostering lifelong
connections with its graduates.
On the future of universities and higher
education, it is fascinating to note that many of
the predictions are already present today in at
least nascent forms: customisable, on-demand
education; offerings of degree and shorter-cycle
courses; flexible learning; blended learning; learner-focused
approach to learning; free access to a
global selection of learning resources; and the like.
Technology, predictably, will be essential in creating
deeply immersive learning environments. Taking
these into account, I hope that, twenty-five years
after its twenty-fifth anniversary, OUM will have
innovated and evolved its mission in alignment with
future circumstances but that it will remain always an
integral part of the community it serves.